“You’ll die first.”
My five year old daughter said that to me about two weeks ago. It was 8:00 a.m. on a Saturday morning. I was leaning into the fridge reaching for some orange juice. She was between bites of her cereal, sounding chirpy and chipmunky as she usually does.
“You’ll die first.”
Do not underestimate the creepiness of hearing your kid say that to you. Even on a bright Saturday morning while you are in your bathrobe and she is in her snowman pjs and all is right with the world — it was super creepy**. I admit I laughed, snorted and gulped at the same time wondering if I was about to have a kindergartener-exorcist-experience and marveling at how unexpected this parenting stuff is.
I aimed for an attitude of nonchalant curiosity as I emerged from the fridge with the oj. “What do you mean, honey? Can you tell me more? Do you have a question?”
Turns out that she was just confirming a logical sequence that she’d worked out in her head….it goes a little like this:
When people get really old, they die. Mom is older than me. Mom will get really old before I get really old. Therefore, Mom will die before I will die.
Mom will die first (before me). Right, Mom?
Yeah, and it was only 8:00 a.m.
I agreed that she was right, that I would die first. Yep, yep, you bet, don’t worry about that. Knowing my kid as I do, I know she was looking for comfort and the standard assurance that if I did something first than it wouldn’t be so scary for her. That is her clear preference for how things work in our little family world — her dad and I pave the way, act things out, model behaviors, act as examples, then she feels safe enough to try for herself. On that Saturday morning, her little brain whispered something unsettling about her own mortality; she wanted to make sure that someone else was on the hook to figure that out first. That would be me….on the hook.
It is a sobering thought that your kid is looking to you to model how to approach death — even in the simplest-five-year-old understanding of that concept — yes, that is a sobering thought over Cheerios and coffee and orange juice and slippers and snowman pjs. I didn’t know I was signing up for that when I saw the double pink line on the pregnancy test, you know?
It’s not surprising though, when I consider that this kid is watching me all the time for clues about how to live in this world and how to interpret the events and the people in it. She is all the time looking for indications about what is frightening and what is not, what is safe and what is not, how to treat people/guests/family/friends/neighbors/strangers, how to express herself, the rules of society, the rules of being female, the rules of being a child, and more…She is looking to me and the other adults in her life to model very complicated ways of operating in the world — so she knows how to be and, more importantly, what to expect.
What can she expect? What should she expect? She wants to know. Geez, so do I.
So, death. It comes up from time to time. We see dead birds or dead animals in the woods – we attended my grandmother’s funeral – her grandparents’ dog died – she hears some snippet of news or adults talking or conversation at school about people dying or getting killed. Fairly often, she comes to me with questions about people who died and what that means for them and for us and for her.
I don’t know the answers to any of this. I don’t know what it all means. Once she learns how to read my blog, she’ll know that.
So, we talk about death. We talk about how the body stops working when you die — no more breathing, playing, moving, eating, sleeping, etc. We talk about the permanence of that bodily change (she doesn’t believe in the permanence — not one bit — that’s ok). We talk about our souls and what a soul might be and where it goes after death. Once we get beyond what happens to the body, I answer almost all of her questions about death with my own question “What do you think happens?” Because I’m curious. Because I want her to think it through in a way that makes sense to her five-year-old-mind. Because I don’t know. Currently, she is certain that all souls go directly to Mars to hang out after death. Alright by me. Alright for now.
Mostly, when she comes to me with questions, she’s really asking if she’s safe, if we are going to leave her, and if anything bad is going to happen in the immediate future. I have spent a great deal of time googling ‘age-appropriate conversations about death and dying’ — what the hell, I don’t know how to talk about this — and I’m doing my best to comfort her without feeding her misinformation. I’m doing my best not to make it all sound scary (like how much it scares me) and instead to frame death as a transition, as a mystery, as an aspect of life that we all have in common. I’m doing my best to make sure that she understands that no discussion topic is taboo whether it’s dying or sex or bodies or whatever, and that emotion-laded topics are not to be feared. In this family, emotions are not to be feared, they are to be shared…even grief, even fear, even confusion, even courage, even love.
Even as I try to comfort her and remind her that she is safe, I know that life and death cannot be controlled. Bad, sad shit happens — wrong and out of order and out of tune and way too soon. I know this. I can’t control it. I can’t anticipate it. One day, she’ll come to me with more questions that I cannot answer about life, death, meaning, fairness, fate, and the f-ed up turning-wheel-of-fortune. In those moments, I will try like hell to hold space for her and her questions, and trust that she will find her own answers over time, as we all must. (Deep breath, deep breath)
In the meantime, I guess I’m showing her how to approach life as well as death (even as I’m figuring that out for myself in real time). I’m engaging what is frightening and what is not, what is safe and what is not; I’m considering how to treat people/guests/family/friends/neighbors/strangers, how to express myself, the rules of society, the rules of being female, the rules of being a child, and more…I am wrestling with the very complicated ways of operating in the world in the presence of my daughter knowing that she can see me and she is watching me live my life.
We talk about living during this living-alive-portion-of-my-life. Daughter, let’s talk about life! I do my best to comfort her without feeding her misinformation. I do my best not to make it all sound scary (like how much life scares me) and instead to frame life as a series of transitions, as a mystery, as something else that we all have in common.
Like death, life still happens, even if we ignore it. I don’t want to ignore either one.
Yes, I want her to be right about me ‘dying first’ (there’s something I never expected I would say).
Yes, that is ok with me.
I plan to live to hit the triple digits. If my soul goes to Mars when I’m 100, she’ll still be a spritely 65. As far as I’m concerned, ‘first’ doesn’t mean anytime soon.
Triple digits, baby.
** Unless you are a five-year-old innocent, please be cool and refrain from repeating this statement to me.
6 thoughts on “A discussion about death over orange juice”
I’m curious to know whether your recent work on Celebration made you any more aware of the “watching me all the time” aspect of parenting. Part of what is so devastating to me about the play was the abused children having to figure out for themselves that what happened to them was completely outside “the rules” as modeled by their parents.
Yes, Kate. I think the “watching and learning” aspect has been on my mind more since/during Celebration. I really thought a lot about how the adults in the room were teaching serious dysfunction to ‘my’ child and that they didn’t really take any responsibility for those lessons. And that was what they learned as children too…very sad.
I have no words for how awesome you are and how awesome this post is. You amaze me and I love you. Thank you for this work.
Mary! Thanks so much! Right back at yah….
Kids talk about death all the time. I think it’s a great time to talk about it, especially before they’re teenagers, since they have “beginner’s mind.” I explained the Theravada interpretation of rebirth to my seven-year-old son (“while you’re alive, you do things, and after you die, those things still have consequences”) and he basically said “Hmmm, interesting.” He didn’t give me a litany of reasons why it was BS, or passionately get behind it. He just thought it was something to think about, something to learn from. Definitely getting the “death is a good reason to think about how you live” in there before age six is a good idea.
Thanks, Joel. I love the response to rebirth. Kids are wide open — it’s a great lesson.